10 excellent reasons …

… to attack Iran. From David Swenson;

1. Iran has threatened to fight back if attacked, and that’s a war crime. War crimes must be punished.

2. My television says Iran has nukes. I’m sure it’s true this time. Just like with North Korea. I’m sure they’re next. We only bomb places that really truly have nukes and are in the Axis of Evil. Except Iraq, which was different.

3. Iraq didn’t go so badly. Considering how lousy its government is, the place is better off with so many people having left or died. Really, that one couldn’t have worked out better if we’d planned it.

4. When we threaten to cut off Iran’s oil, Iran threatens to cut off Iran’s oil, which is absolutely intolerable. What would we do without that oil? And what good is buying it if they want to sell it?

5. Iran was secretly behind 9-11. I read it online. And if it wasn’t, that’s worse. Iran hasn’t attacked another nation in centuries, which means its next attack is guaranteed to be coming very soon.

6. Iranians are religious nuts, unlike Israelis and Americans. Most Israelis don’t want to attack Iran, but the Holy Israeli government does. To oppose that decision would be to sin against God.

7. Iranians are so stupid that when we murder their scientists they try to hire a car dealer in Texas to hire a drug gang in Mexico to murder a Saudi ambassador in Washington, and then they don’t do it — just to make us look bad for catching them.

7. b. Oh, and stupid people should be bombed. They’re not civilized.

8. War is good for the U.S. economy, and the Iranian economy too. Troops stationed in Iran would buy stuff. And women who survived the war would have more rights. Like in Virginia. We owe Iranians this after that little mishap in 1953.

9. This is the only way to unite the region. Either we bomb Iran and it swears its eternal love to us. Or, if necessary, we occupy Iran to liberate it like its neighbors. Which shouldn’t take long. Look how well Afghanistan is going already.

10. They won’t give our drone back. Enough said.

I can think of several more, actually, and will be talking about this some more pretty soon. Not least is the fact that anywhere you look the economic metrics are headed in negative directions. I’m not counting the Dow, of course, because that doesn’t really mean anything when it comes to structural issues, it just shows who’s betting on what, and even then not very transparently.

And there already is a war going on, here and in Europe. The fact that it’s an economic war more than a war with high explosives is a minor quibble. Greece has now been invaded and colonized, economically, as one of the opening moves in the escalation of that war. The economic straight-jacket into which Greece has been lashed is more punitive by far than the conditions imposed upon Germany after WW2, on a par indeed with those imposed after WW1, and we can all remember how well that played out.

And this time it’s Germany doing the imposition, with a little help from a few other Eurozone members. We’re in for one hell of  a Summer. It may be a game-changing period in fact. It’s very unsettling.

Economies are being stripped to the bare walls right and left to buttress the insolvency of financial sectors all over the developed world. A war, a real one, may well be needed to distract us all from all that. Once again the drumbeats of preëmptive war are throbbing incessantly. Evil Empire XYZ is building WMD’s!!!! It’s another acronym threat to our way of life!!!! We must prepare for the worst!!!

But wait;

The intelligence assessment Israeli officials will present later this week to [Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Martin ] Dempsey indicates that Iran has not yet decided whether to make a nuclear bomb.

The Israeli view is that while Iran continues to improve its nuclear capabilities, it has not yet decided whether to translate these capabilities into a nuclear weapon – or, more specifically, a nuclear warhead mounted atop a missile. Nor is it clear when Iran might make such a decision.

The more it changes, the more it stays the same.


18 Responses to 10 excellent reasons …

  1. Pornstar says:

    Their treatment of women and homosexuals is why every liberal should support a war against Iran.

  2. bluthner says:

    Cause shooting at people always makes them come round to your way of thinking. Especially if you hit quite a lot of them, and blow up all their pesky infrastructure. And spread a lot of depleted uranium around the place. Hot steel is such a convincing argument.

  3. KevinNevada says:

    I see quite a bit of panicked thinking and writing on this forum today.

    Reality check:

    1. Not one major intel service has said anything but this: Iran could develop nukes, but is not currently doing so. The Israelis don’t even want them to start.

    2. Development and deployment of a usable nuclear weapon is not a simple matter. It takes time, and a lot of money and testing too. Those tests are impossible to hide from anyone, any more.

    3. The Iranian regime is collapsing from within. They probably do not have enough time left, before the next uprising, to develop any workable nukes.

    4. The loss of their client state in Syria will hit them hard, and that day is approaching fast.

    5. The SWIFT cutoff, coming soon from the EU will be devastating.

    As for our own economic indicators: not all of them are headed south. David Frum, over on the DB today is reminding his former friends that their narrative against President Obama is being undercut by real economic indicators that are going in good directions:

    Unemployment, no. of LT unemployed and new unemployment claims, all on steady downward trend lines.
    New housing construction (outside of CA, AZ, NV or FL), new auto sales and consumer credit, all going up.

    These are facts. They may change in the future, in fact are certain to change. But that is the current reality and it is why the DJIA broke 13,000 this week.

  4. KevinNevada says:

    I’ll try here to upload the two graphics from the DB post by Frum.



  5. Elena says:

    Well, I guess if the general wisdom says Iran isn’t currently making nukes, then that is so.

    I confess to niggling doubts, but there you are.

    Kev is right, Israel does not even want them to start.

    I do hope if there is an Israeli attack this year that Obama keeps the US out of it. It will cause the republicans to go apoplectic with faux patriotic fury, but, you know what, I don’t think there is any appetite in this country for another war and I think he will have public opinion on his side.

  6. Di-Ohso says:

    Did people really make those comments? :O

    Please tell me they’re made up.

  7. KevinNevada says:


    I really have no problem with my government doing everything it can without dropping bombs to help the Iranian people to free themselves from this Fascist tyranny. I have friends from that country and heard a lot directly from them during the 2009 uprising.

    I also think that any direct attack by the Western nations will only help the Fascists, by uniting their people against an external threat.

    The public statements from people such as our CIA director, under oath to Congress, tell us that Iran is not currently making nuclear bombs – yet.

    The ongoing collapse of the Assad tyranny in Syria will also hit the Iranians hard.

  8. KevinNevada says:


    In your post, you stated this:

    Not least is the fact that anywhere you look the economic metrics are headed in negative directions.

    I tried to post this earlier, but screwed up. Beyond the DB I found the original source, on TPM for the graphics which Frum cited today.

    Here is the link. It shows several indicators, which are moving in extended trends in helpful directions.

    Unemployment rate, number of LT unemployed and new unemployment claims, all trending down.
    Consumer credit, new housing construction and new auto sales, all trending up.

    And GM is flourishing, cashing in on “deferred demand” from the past two years, as people delayed the replacement of aging vehicles.

  9. gunnison says:


    Unemployment rate, number of LT unemployed and new unemployment claims, all trending down.
    Consumer credit, new housing construction and new auto sales, all trending up.

    Unemployment rate numbers are cooked and we all know it — stick around, they went back up to 9% last month. Working class pay is still stagnant or falling. Underemployment is still rife. The financial sector is still insolvent without any real way to know how badly, since they need not mark their assets to market, nor need they reveal what those “assets” are, even to their own shareholders.
    I don’t see any of the metrics you cite as predictive in any meaningful way anyway, the problems are structural, both here and in Europe. China is having to make adjustments and is on the upswing of a development bubble. The explosive growth that has fueled their performance is now slowing. Japan is in real trouble with monstrous debt ratios.

    It might be possible to duct tape things together until the election, but that’s not a safe bet in my view.
    I really think all this talk about how Obama is increasingly going to kick ass in the election is enormously premature, though it could happen if the duct tape holds.

    Either way, we’re going downhill for much much further yet before this crap is over. Frum is a dick, with a short term view. Power and privilege is nowhere near finished with their project of stripping economies bare and transferring money upwards, then ringfencing themselves. Nowhere near. And we’re nowhere near electing anyone to prevent it, because nobody is running on that kind of platform. Nor will there ever be without either massive public unrest, or a repeal of Citizen’s United and reinstalling Glass-Steagal, that’s at a bare minimum. All three would be a decent start.
    We’re still in thrall to “trickle down” voodoo bullshit.
    We’re in ostrich mode.

  10. KevinNevada says:

    Yet, yet . . . . the new technologies are rolling out,right on schedule and not slowed very much by the recession. New discoveries did not slow down, but implementation for some of them did.

    We still have the world’s best system for financing a new idea.

    Yes, the one percent still want to rape all the rest of us. But the opposition is building.

    Greece is not as much of a canary in the coal mine as you assert. That society did run on borrowed money, along with a distaste for paying their taxes that had become their national religion – to a much greater extent than other societies. And they retired too damned early.

    Now they are growing up and paying for the party of the past few decades.

    We had the 1990’s when things ran in a more positive direction, middle class earnings increased in real terms, the debt was paid down by about one trillion. Those conditions can be created again. If Obama and the Democrats get control in 2013, on the Hill too, the military will endure a major cutback.

    Here is something else, we have not discussed before. Technology is about to make “existing conditions” screening for a person’s DNA cheap enough to do for everyone. The cost/genome is dropping that fast. Once they can screen anyone, they will have the ability to exclude anyone.

    Now that will be a come-to-Jesus moment for health care access in the US. There is some genetic flaw in every one of us. Every one. So if the insurance outfits gain the ability to exclude anyone, I think it will force them into a new system that excludes no one.

    Universal insurance will become an imperative.

    Yeah, I know others here will see that outcome differently. But think it over.

  11. gunnison says:


    Greece is not as much of a canary in the coal mine as you assert.

    Well not all canaries are equally robust, that’s for sure, but all of them are birds.

    That society did run on borrowed money

    Thank goddess we don’t have that to worry about.

    ….along with a distaste for paying their taxes that had become their national religion

    Where are we talking about again?

    If Obama and the Democrats get control in 2013, on the Hill too, the military will endure a major cutback.

    The only way that could happen without cratering the economy is for the money to be spent on some other kind of public works endeavor that could employ all those laid-off Raytheon and Boeing employees. We can’t even quit making land mines, WW2 technology for crissakes, without throwing thousands of people out of work.

    Logistically, it might be possible, but politically? In our dreams, maybe.

  12. KevinNevada says:


    Some spending on more infrastructure is inevitable. The accumulated neglect is a slow-churning emergency, and it is a drag on the economy too.

    There is a nice multiplier effect that comes from domestic infrastructure spending. The bucks circulate several times, and each cycle generates taxes in some manner too.

    Military spending tends to avoid that. We spend a lot helping the economies of Germany, Japan, Korea, etc. etc. freakin’ etc.

  13. gunnison says:

    you know that I agree with you about the benefits of infrastructure investment etc, we’ve both been agitating for it for years. And sure, it’s money better spent than on things that go “boom”.
    But the fact is that we spend more than the next 15 nations in the world combined on military stuff, and just about only Saudi Arabia spends more as a % of GDP. And they buy from us.
    You’re being rational. Our political, economic and legal institutions are now systemically incapable of responding rationally to the situation at hand, that’s what I’m saying.
    Citizen’s United is a big part of that. Did you see where 25% of PAC money is coming from just 5 individuals? (USA Today, I think, I’ve lost the link)
    What good is sensible rhetoric against a headwind like that? No. We’re not getting out of this rut without riots and a lot more pain, and we’re not at that point yet.

  14. NatashaFatale says:

    Gunny, Kevin:

    You know, some dull weekend when there’s nothing interesting to talk about, we could maybe have a discussion about the socialized half of the economy (which is where I hang out), and how it works, and what might come of trying to use it as a model for making infrastructure and stuff like that. And how we might use it a little less for what we use it for now. Just not tonight.

    I’ll be travelling all day tomorrow. Might check in before I leave for the airport, might not. Don’t have to, you know. Bluthner gave me the whole week off.

  15. bluthner says:

    It’s four in the morning here, and other things besides politics have dragged me from sleep, but this conversation you guys are having pretty well captures the major down and up sides to the possible versions of the future at which we are all hurtling. Kev you are doing a good job describing where the road we ought to following would lead. Gunny, alas, is doing a good job describing the deep mud we are struggling through in the present.

    Kev, you need to remember that the 90’s surplus was financed largely on borrowed money, most of it equity the U.S. middle class sucked out of their houses, which is a trick we can’t play again, because the middle class is just about sucked dry of surplus assets, now.

    And yes, there is tech coming that will change categorically the way humans live on earth. But it’s not coming soon enough to rescue us from the pain we are facing. We have to do that with the blunt tools that are lying around the workshop in this morning’s precarious mist.

    As Gunny so clearly points out, categorically shrinking the military would not be just a budgetary exercise, it’s a cultural exercise, requiring not just a restructuring of our economy but of our very understanding of what America does, is, and hopes to be. And the more you threaten the complex, the more they will do their damnedest to discover new conflicts we just HAVE to fight, or else give over to Satanic Forces of All Destroying Evil. And which movie do you think the voters of this country are more likely to want to buy a ticket for: Kicking Ass For God and Country and Sweet Young Pussy, or The Grapes of Wrath 2?

    And then there is the vast and destroying problem of faction. Republic are always destroyed, in the end, by faction. It is their Achilles heel. This country was destroyed once already by faction, and only the utter crushing of one faction by the other, requiring the death and maiming and uprooting of millions and the destruction of the wealth and a vast proportion of the economy of an entire region, and the extinction -or attempted extinction- of that region’s very culture accomplished what had to be done for the country to survive. More and more we have become not just a country of the 1 percent and the 99, but the 99 is a house divided against itself, and the two sides hardly even remember how to speak to each other using words that the other side even comprehends.

    That said, I still see Obama in the white house come this time next year. Partly because the alternative isn’t even thinkable, but mostly because the center is moderate and he is moderate, and of the center, and although people desperately want change, even painful change, they also hate painful change that happens too fast. And the clowns on the other side aren’t offering anything at all of value, just ragged anthems that they haven’t the chops any more to sing like they mean it, all backed by, frankly, weirder and weirder religion that the center is just never going to buy into.

    I’m with you Kev, good things is comin’. But I’m with you, too, Gunny: the ain’t comin’ anywhere near fast enough. The road ahead is rocky as shit. Puts me in mind of W.C. William’s “To Elsie”, which I’m now going to go fetch.

  16. Bluthner says:

    Sorry that was me above. And this is William Carlos Williams.

    To Elsie

    The pure products of America
    go crazy—
    mountain folk from Kentucky

    or the ribbed north end of
    with its isolate lakes and

    valleys, its deaf-mutes, thieves
    old names
    and promiscuity between

    devil-may-care men who have taken
    to railroading
    out of sheer lust of adventure—

    and young slatterns, bathed
    in filth
    from Monday to Saturday

    to be tricked out that night
    with gauds
    from imaginations which have no

    peasant traditions to give them
    but flutter and flaunt

    sheer rags—succumbing without
    save numbed terror

    under some hedge of choke-cherry
    or viburnum—
    which they cannot express—

    Unless it be that marriage
    with a dash of Indian blood

    will throw up a girl so desolate
    so hemmed round
    with disease or murder

    that she’ll be rescued by an
    reared by the state and

    sent out at fifteen to work in
    some hard-pressed
    house in the suburbs—

    some doctor’s family, some Elsie—
    voluptuous water
    expressing with broken

    brain the truth about us—
    her great
    ungainly hips and flopping breasts

    addressed to cheap
    and rich young men with fine eyes

    as if the earth under our feet
    an excrement of some sky

    and we degraded prisoners
    to hunger until we eat filth

    while the imagination strains
    after deer
    going by fields of goldenrod in

    the stifling heat of September
    it seems to destroy us

    It is only in isolate flecks that
    is given off

    No one
    to witness
    and adjust, no one to drive the car

  17. NatashaFatale says:


    That one always reminded me of this one, but ask me why and I’ll just huff and say “because.”


    “kitty”. sixteen, 5′ 11″, white, prostitute.

    ducking always the touch of must and shall,

    whose slippery body is Death’s littlest pal,

    skilled in quick softness. Unspontaneous. cute.

    the signal perfume of whose unrepute

    focuses in the sweet slow animal

    bottomless eyes importantly banal,

    Kitty. a whore. Sixteen

    you corking brute

    amused from time to time by clever drolls

    fearsomely who do keep their sunday flower.

    The babybreasted broad “kitty” twice eight

    –beer nothing, the lady’ll have a whiskey-sour–

    whose least amazing smile is the most great

    common divisor of unequal souls.

    –E.E. Cummings, 1923

  18. Pornstar says:

    Natty –

    what might come of trying to use it as a model for making infrastructure and stuff like that. And how we might use it a little less for what we use it for now.”

    I’m a bit heartened to hear you say this. You hinted on Cif awhile ago about the government getting involved in subsidized manufacturing, and i would have heartily disagreed. Except in this instance – manufacturing for infrastructure, energy, etc. Which is most likely what we should be doing with it. From one who saw far too much government money going into weapons research.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Enter the answer in digits. If you are registered and logged in, this silliness will go away. Time limit is exhausted. Please reload the CAPTCHA.