…some better idea

…that will never, ever come to pass. So said a certain desperately butthurt recent general election loser re: single-payer healthcare. Tomorrow said butthurt former candidate prepares to unleash her tome in a bid to reunite the fractured, but trying, Democratic party. And apparently plans to continue the pity party / tirade throughout the fall on the tometour. Main object of wrath (among legions) of butthurt loser’s ire is a primary loser who is actually doing the job he was elected to do.

On Wednesday, Bernie Sanders releases his plan for single-payer healthcare. Yawn. He’s done this many times over the years, no? And it will never, ever come to pass. Right Nance? Right Di? Chuck? Right Cory, Kamala, Lizzie? But wait…the latter three, as well as Jeff Merkley, are presumably 2020 hopefuls. And they’ve also signed on as co-sponsors for the bill. And shoot me now, even Max Baucus approves and says it’s time. (And i say gee thanks, asshole.)

There has already been kicking and screeching of course. I’ve been at the NYT because i’m a patriot and my country needs me over there, it’s filled to bursting with wankers. Tomasky said recently over there that this is not the way to go, let’s just tweak O’Care. Krugman says that progressives shouldn’t be worring their economically illiterate heads about this, let’s just go back to the safe space and fix O’Care, and focus on paid leave instead. Leonhardt echoes Krugman.

You know what? It’s probably not going to happen anytime soon. But as the butthurt loser was unable to grasp, you start by asking for the the sun, moon, stars, and a pony. And you might get the stars. It’s going to be hard. But 4 possible candidates for 2020 are on record here, they won’t be able to backtrack it without a major hit to cred. Old fossils are going to be toast. And you know what? It’s seriously on the fucking table. Which it wouldn’t be if no one bothered to try. So i’ll be waiting for those numbers, Bern.

In other news – as we all know, Trump kicked DACA back to congress for a permanent fix. Absolutely the right thing to do, that’s whose job it was in the first fucking place. While they’re all screeching themselves blue in order to avoid doing their job casting an actual vote that may or may not be held against them next election. It’s hard to stand for something. Do your fucking job and pass it. I suspect that it will pass.

But. Tomasky had a NYT column postulating a trade for the wall that some other liberal commenters supported to save DACA. He recommended absolutely no way, and i agree. The wall is beyond stupid. But they’re going to have to give up something. What to watch out for – Guiterrez shooting off his trap and saying, no, the inch isn’t good enough, we want the whole mile or we’ll shut down the gov’t. Badly enough to chance blowing it for the DACA kids? Do i need to remind you that your party has gotten slaughtered the last 4 elections, and this issue had a lot to do with at least the past 2 or 3?

And as for the folks who say (roughly paraphrased) – those kids are each worth more than 10 of those white heartland kids, let’s deport them and keep DACA kids blah blah blah? All i can say is – Hi, I’m Steve Bannon and I approve this message.

87 Responses to …some better idea

  1. bluthner says:

    Brexit was won here not as a result of any kind of policy discussion, but on the emotive power of three words: “Take Back Control”. At the time no one had a clue what they meant, in any practical way, and no one knows now; everyone filled in their own subject, which for most Brexit voters was “stop letting in more people what aren’t like us.” It was a brilliant stroke of marketing and it worked.

    “Make America Great Again” was just about as clever, because, as Nine points out, the truth is that nearly everyone wearing the stupid red had knew what it really meant was Make America White Again.

    Some people still like to say that Trump didn’t win the election as much as HRC lost it. And I can’t disagree with that. But if Joe Biden had run, with all of the EXACT same policy positions as HRC said she had, he would have wupped Trump’s ass.

    I’ll ask again, SB: can you point to any presidential election in memory where policy positions made any discernable difference to to the outcome? I still can’t.

  2. StillBernie says:

    Gunny –

    A study said that while a lot of Trump’s support came from people making that $72K / year, it was the fear for the future and for their kids and neighbors. They felt that their jobs were tenuous, saw their neighbors out of work, and that the opportunities were gone for their families. That is actually not an irrational fear, it’s backed up by an awful lot of studies.

    The problem is, with Sanders out of the running, there was really nowhere for people like that to go. There was nowhere for people like me to go. If you couldn’t vote for Trump, you stayed home, voted 3rd party, or voted but left the top blank. And you get very, very angry at a system that coughs up two choices like the dog food that we got.

    And here’s where I agree with Bluth – it was Biden’s turn and Obama and the PUMAs Democrats were too up their own asses to realize that. I have no idea what Clinton’s policies even were, she changed them so much. I seriously doubt if even she knew what they were, i have a suspicion that she didn’t talk about them and sent people to her website because they were just a bunch of focused group white papers that her staff uploaded there. And i wasn’t interested anyway because they were just the public positions, and she made it kinda clear in the Wall St. speech released that she had private positions. Biden would have surely won, but he would have had his own positions.

    And i would have voted for him too, with some major reservations, but i would have still voted for him. Even i don’t vote solely on policy, that’s just where i start. Then i look at the candidate, their record, history, character, etc, and decide if i think they’ll act on those policies, if they’re capable, etc.

    Gotta say, i don’t get the bit about Trump’s charisma, i think he has all the charisma of a dead fish.

    But yeah, Bluth, i think policy matters, and that’s where people start. And then the trust in the character of the candidate comes into it. Even if your policy is make America white again, and here’s how i’m going to do it, that’s a policy.

    And keep in mind, there were an awful lot of lower income people who had very legitimate concerns about immigration who weren’t racists, for economic reasons. A lot of Democrats sure did, the ones who weren’t sipping lattes in gated communities. I’m one of them too. They really didn’t have anywhere to go. And if you saw Obama’s last term as plugging both sending jobs out via trade deals, while bringing more labor in, and Clinton ramping it up on steroids while crowing about putting miners out of work, with Bernie and Biden out of the picture you were stuck between a rock and a hard place.

  3. StillBernie says:

    But. Where are you going to go now? I’m all for Trump being impeached, or whatever it takes to get rid of him. But you’ve still gotten rid of just the symptom. Only baby step i can see for my own way out is to support the healthcare crowd. It’s probably not going to help me personally, i’m eligible for Medicare in 8 years if i’m still alive, i’ll be shocked if it passes before then. But a long view is needed here. As i said, it took decades to get us to this point. If we’re going to climb out, it’s going to take a long time too.

  4. But you’ve still gotten rid of just the symptom.

    Agree completely.

    That said, the symptom(s) now running the show and packing the courts with Federalist Society picks and stripping the public sector to the bare walls and all the rest are authoritarians who are playing for keeps. They know this is as close to realizing their Ayn Randian/theocratic wet dreams as they’ve ever been, or ever likely will be, and they ain’t gonna be “gotten rid of” without a much uglier fight that would have been the case had someone, anyone, from the Other Party been elected.

    In fact, for my money the jury’s still out on whether they can be gotten rid of at all. Everything that any aspiring fascist dictator would do in Trump’s shoes is now being done in earnest, from packing the judicial system with sympathetic intellects and laying the groundwork for questioning future election results to stripping the authority of regulatory agencies and beefing up domestic “law enforcement” capability.

    That’s just scratching the surface of how deep the hole is now, and that’s one hell of a lot deeper than any other result would have made it.

    And keep in mind, there were an awful lot of lower income people who had very legitimate concerns about immigration who weren’t racists, for economic reasons.

    Well that certainly explains why so much time was spent discussing the economic intricacies of low-wage employment.
    Just think what horrible conclusions those lower income people might have embraced if Trump (and King et al) had focused on (entirely fictional) immigrants’ appetite for rape and murder and drug smuggling. (“And some, I assume, are good people …”)

    Do you really think all those chants of “build the wall” were driven by people upset about immigrants cleaning motel toilets and working in chicken-processing plants?

    Again, I’m not dismissing the dynamics you mention because yes, a goodly number of people in some trades were concerned about immigrant labor being competitive. Construction for example.
    But the main drivers of the Trump phenomenon were not about economic policy, or any kind of policy. They were about racism, xenophobia and misogyny.
    Oh, and military bellicosity too, let’s throw that into the mix, because “building up” our “decaying” military prowess (it’s a “disaster”, he said) was a big part of Trump’s bullshit too.

  5. StillBernie says:

    Gunny, of course Trump was all about make America white again. But if he didn’t talk about about the intricacies of toilet cleaners and chicken plants (which used to pay well, until the likes of Tyson kicked American workers out, who used to be heavily African American, and wholesale imported workers they could abuse for shit wages and no bennies), he did talk about jobs and trade. And you don’t have to be a racist, you don’t even have to be white to be concerned if you live in a poorer area and see your schools filling up with a whole lotta kids that need ESL and other services, at the expense of your own kids who are already at a disadvantage. With virtually no help from the government. If you’re a construction worker, you probably don’t care about the race of the guy drywalling next to you. But you probably care if your wages have been halved, you’re paying taxes on them, and chances are that the guy next to you who was picked up at Home Depot isn’t. If you’re a black temp worker in NJ, you don’t have to be a racist to be pissed off because the business owners who are racist tell the agency that they want the Hispanics, don’t send any blacks. I cleaned toilets as a high school kid, there are jobs that Americans will do, just not at the wages that people want to pay.

    I’m a city rat, i say the more diversity in cultures, the merrier. But that’s a whole different thing than saying hey, more cheap labor, more bodies for not enough jobs, keep it coming. And send more jobs away while you’re at it. There was no middle ground on offer here, none. Closest to that was Sanders, who at least gave a shit about Americans and jobs and wages. All that was on offer here was either the Dems or Trump. No wonder so many stayed home.

    Even now, look at the one thing the Dems get passionate about is DACA. Yep, it should pass. Then again, what are they offering up for American workers? A Better Deal™? Gee thanks, now go fuck yourselves. Tom Perez is banging on about microtargeting zip codes. One Dem professor is nearly pleading with him, but you need a message to bring them, what’s your message, what are you going to do for them? Uh, we don’t really know that yet, we still have to figure that out.

    Our economy has become so predicated on cheap labor, people have gotten so used to expecting it as their entitlement and due. It makes me really sick. They get whinging on about how it’s hard to find help for some jobs. Teh stock solution is to bring in more off the books foreign labor. It never even occurs to them to raise wages, and they act offended if you bring it up. This whole system has to change. Again, the healthcare crew is about the only portal out right now that i can see.

  6. bluthner says:

    “I’ll kick out the Muslims. I’ll build a wall to keep out those rapist Mexicans. I’ll bring back all your old muscle jobs. I’ll drain the swamp and get bankers and Wall street out of Government. I’ll make America White again. etc ad nauseum.

    Anyone who calls shit-talking like that “policy” probably also calls Velveeta “cheese”.

    SB, if you didn’t know what HRC’s policies were then no one knew what they were. And if her policies were unknown, and Trump didn’t have any -which clearly he didn’t; racism, xenophobia, misogyny and bellicosity just are not policies no matter how often he said they are- then it just gets back to my point: the race was not about policy. It was about tribal identity politics, which is to say the most assinine kind of politics, and the most dangerous and superficial and shallow and the most easily manipulated and the most false kind of politics that exist.

    Sure, again, voters ought to start with the policy. But they absolutely just never do. Almost none of them. And as long as the any party pretends that’s how it works then that party is going to get its ass kicked. Over and over and over again.

  7. StillBernie says:

    Bluth, that ad nauseum isn’t policy. Of course not, and neither was calling people baskets of deplorables. We’ll come up with a lovely, lovely plan for healthcare isn’t policy. It’s my turn and Trump Sux isn’t policy. Building a wall and killing off TPP and squelching immigration is policy. Promising to sign an executive order to legalize those here illegally is policy. (And as much hot air as building a wall was, Obama’s got shot down, but yours will make it through?) And from what i caught of Clinton’s speeches, closing down coal mines and putting miners out of work is policy too. And spare me the “well, no, listen to what came after the deplorables part in the speech, and the putting miners out of work.” She made her points and got the dog whistles in first off the bat. Sure, she added a CYA qualifer after it. But she knew what she was doing. But as you said above, a lot of the vote on either side a was tribal, and a lot was against the other, not for. Which is, again, a situation which can’t help but generate intense rage at both parties, and the entire system.

    Bluth, Bernie didn’t win, he had no party, but he got a big following. Do you think it was due to the irresistable charisma of a rumpled old Jewish guy with a bad accent and bad hair? And no tribe at the outset? It was policy.

  8. StillBernie says:

    And again, it comes down to, what are you going to do? Find scintillating candidates for every race you need to win in ’18? Find a magnetic empty suit for the top spot in ’20? Try to game the zip codes, or game primaries in California and get the superdelegates lined up for Kamala Harris? what could possibly go wrong there. Or maybe the Dems could come up with some policies that might actually give voters something to turn out for in the midterms. Nah, fuck it, that’s too hard and too much work. We’ll just try to raise some more money to piss away on stupid ads.

  9. bluthner says:

    Do you think it was due to the irresistable charisma of a rumpled old Jewish guy with a bad accent and bad hair?

    Absolutely categorically yes it was, in very large part, to do with his charisma and nothing but. Anyone could see that!

    As it happened his charisma was all bound up in being a straight talking guy who didn’t trim and the way we know that was he had stuck to his guns over the years about certain policies. But it was the fact that he didn’t trim, and that he spoke his mind as much as anything else: if he had different solutions, and had always had different solutions, but he was speaking to the same problems in the same straight way, he would have had just as many votes.

  10. bluthner says:

    What are you going to do? Find scintillating candidates for every race you need to win in ’18? … Or maybe the Dems could come up with some policies that might actually give voters something to turn out for in the midterms.

    Guess what. They have to do both or they are fucked.

  11. StillBernie says:

    Not buying it about Bernie. If some of his solutions were unrealistic as they stood (or at least bundled all together), and i’ll be the first one to admit it, they still spoke to needs that neither party were touching. That was a primal scream from a chunk of the electorate. Healthcare that worked for them was a policy that some people were desperate for, free tuition was another, higher wages were another, and jobs and infrastructure was another. Bundled together wasn’t going to happen all at once. If he was the same guy taking, say, a Libertarian position all of these years – like we have to open up our borders and allow labor and capital to move freely through the globe for all to prosper – he wouldn’t have gotten the time of day from the part of the electorate that he did.

    “Guess what. They have to do both or they are fucked.”

    Gfl with that. Pro-tips – don’t insult the voters, and don’t try to game the primaries.

  12. bluthner says:

    SB, If you can point me at any pol anywhere from any time who is, or was, a Libertarian (but not an outright anarchist) AND has, or had, charisma, I’d be grateful. Because such a person, as far as I know, has never walked this earth.

  13. KevinNevada says:

    I think this notion that no one knew what HRC’s policies were, is utter fiction.

    She was reasonably consistent through the primaries and the general. After over 20 years in public life people knew what they would get from Hillary. The triangulating, the sometimes brilliance, the skill at making deals, the lot.

    What people thought they knew, on top of what was real, was also being generated by a very skillful propaganda effort, to paint her as a warmonger, the ‘most corrupt candidate ever’ (when Trump may well hold that particular title), and several other fictions.

    We are still learning just how skillful that campaign was, how many tentacles it had. Facebook just revealed another fat slice of it, and sent that data over to Mueller’s team for their consideration.

    HRC is annoying, smug, clumsy on the stump, and talks AT people instead of working a crowd. She is incapable of the call-and-response that comes naturally to her husband, and to Trump to some extent, and notably also to Joe Biden.

    But she did not ‘game’ those primaries. She accumulated about three million more walk-up votes around the country than Sanders did, in the primaries run by the public registrars. The Democratic Party could not possibly have refused her that nomination.

    Now, it would help if she would just STFU for at least a year, and maybe just raise money for a slew of new candidates. That, she can do, and do well.

    The new candidates are stepping forth, at all levels.

  14. KevinNevada says:

    As for who is fucked, in our current mess, check out the competing turnouts yesterday in the Capitol Mall.

    There was a demonstration by the fans of the “Insane Clown Posse”, an annoying pack of fools who label themselves the Juggalos, asking for the FBI to de-certify them as a ‘gang’. (I happen to think they are justified in that request. But that isn’t the point here.)

    There was also The Mother Of All Rallies, by Trump’s Chumps, in support of the Odious Hairball.

    Just guess which pack of annoying clowns was larger?

    Far, far larger according to reliable reports.

    The recent Phoenix rally for Trump was also a bust. It drew only about 4,000 and a significant fraction of them drifted away while the Hairball ranted on for about 75 minutes, mostly on detailed rehashing of his then-current set of arguments with reality-based life forms.

    The hairball’s counter-punching compulsion is being indulged, lately, at Republicans more than Democrats. He’ll be insulting Ann Coulter very soon.

    And Mueller just hired another expert prosecutor, with white-collar crime experience.

    Yes, I still intend to annoy you all with the half-full evaluations.

    Trump’s moment has passed. His real troubles will start soon.

    Fredo was on the Hill last week, answering complex questions from skilled interviewers, for hours. What are the odds that he avoided lying, in all that long session?

  15. But she did not ‘game’ those primaries.

    Technically you are right of course, because the rules is the rules, and you’re right that they could not have refused to nominate her.

    But one hell of a lot of people who the Dems really do need in their tent feel, and feel strongly, that the superdelegate system does exactly that.
    And since it was expressly designed to put an early thumb on the primary scale in favor of the establishment’s choice of candidate, and suppress the chances of any grass roots troublemakers, they are exactly right.

    Yes, I still intend to annoy you all with the half-full evaluations.

    You damn well better!
    Stopping us from going completely off the rails is a dirty job, sure, but someone has to do it.

  16. StillBernie says:

    Bluth –

    Bill Weld. But he’s not really a Libertarian either. Just played one for awhile.

  17. StillBernie says:

    And Cory Booker, who plays at being a Democrat ;)

  18. KevinNevada says:

    9T:

    It was you, my friend, who reminded us (several months ago) that we are not permitted to despair.

    I think that the O.H. carries within him, the seeds of his own destruction. Some grand writing will result from this saga when it’s over, with operatic levels of folly and idiocy.

    In the long run, his winning the White House may open the door to the destruction of the entire Trump empire, the whole house of cards, the filthy deals, the pyramid schemes of finance, all of it.

    Had he just remained a non-humble launderer of other criminal’s investments, happily acquiring more and more, gilding his life with tinsel, then Ivanka and the boys would have easily inherited the scams and schemes.

    Now, it is all at risk.

    Only opera will be able to tell this tale properly, afterward.

  19. StillBernie says:

    Hey, even i gave you some half-full stuff here. Gimme some fucking credit.

    Now Kevin, I’m with Gunny here. Ok, rules is rules, and so let’s give it to you for the moment that the Dems technically didn’t game the primary. Then everybody can stfu about the EC, because rules is rules too. And if your candidate was too flat out stupid to understand the rules of the EC, she had no business running for office let alone whining that she lost the EC. I guarantee you that Joe Biden wouldn’t have been partying with the 1% in California after the convention, and nfw he would have lost PA, MI, and WI.

    But Kev, about that California primary on Super Tuesday now, if Brown signs it. Now you, if anybody, should know that it costs a colossal shitload of money (and time) to campaign in California. Let alone do it while jockeying for the other 10 states as well. So who the hell has the money for that, so early in the game. And for 55 EVs.

    a) Someone very well known already (ie like a Clinton or a Biden or a Bush) and / or
    b) Someone with a shedload of early cash, either from big stinky donors, the DNC, or both and / or
    c) Someone from California, who doesn’t have to fight to be known, and bonus it will leave them time and money for other states.

    Fix is in for Kamala Harris, just by the nature of switching that primary date.

    Don’t think i forgot what you told us about being very afraid of what the Pelosi machine coughs up. And apparently she has the Clinton donors now. Something is very wrong when the buzz is about a relatively inexperienced candidate for 2020 before they’ve even won their Sanate seat.

  20. StillBernie says:

    The problem with the superdelegates last election though, wasn’t so much the effect that it had on Sanders. But it pissed off the primary voters who voted for him something royal. And you can’t cry if so many of them stayed home. See, for superdelegates to be bought off before the primaries even started is hideously uncool. Your party had no idea who would have been in contention aginst Clinton, it could have been anybody. Could have been a candidate way better than her. Imagine if she pulled that before the primaries with Obama, when she was up against a better candidate.

  21. KevinNevada says:

    I happen to know a lot about how to campaign in CA. I was inside the belly of that beast for a number of years.

    A well-organized grass-roots campaign can work there, if they get running properly and early.

    The machine in that state just loves to pick the winners ahead of time. But I can tell you several specific tales of how they have been foiled by revolts from the volunteer network.

    Harris isn’t new on the scene anyway. They’ve been bringing her along since she was the county DA for San Francisco.

    As for this “my party” stuff, remember that I’m no longer part of that insider crew. I walked away from it about 15 years ago, now. I stay in touch, with certain folks whom I trust. That’s all.

    As for how pissed off people became over the superdelegates . . . when will you all realize that THAT WAS PART OF THE MANIPULATION CAMPAIGN!! It worked, too. Just look at this thread.

    Sorry to shout, but you really still don’t realize the full extent of the op that was run in 2016.

    The superdelegates have been around since the 1970’s. How did they suddenly become such a deal?

    Answer is, that was a manufactured “thing”, just like the Benghazi Thing and the Emails Thing.
    Different targeted micro-market, same scam.

  22. StillBernie says:

    Kev, they were bought off ahead of time. Were they bought off ahead of time in every other campaign since the 70’s? If so, first i heard of it. As i understood it, they were there in case the primary voters voted for someone the party found unacceptable after the fact of voting. If it was part of a manipulation campaign, it doesn’t matter because you’ve (Dems, not you in particular) still told the voters that their votes were worthless. Yes you did. I think the Dems are in for a rough ride it they wanna try that shit in the future.

    As for Harris, i suspect that if voters feel like the fix is in so early in the game after Super Tues, and there are other good candidate on offer (as i suspect there will be, if they don’t crash and have to withdraw after that), it may not be an easy ride for the rest of the season. Voters don’t like to be manipulated.

  23. KevinNevada says:

    SB:

    sorry but you missed my main point. Not for the first time, either.

    The outrage is a manufactured entity. Micro-targeting and it worked like a charm
    You are making my case for me. Thanks.

    You’ve been very successfully manipulated.

    No, the voters weren’t told ‘their votes were worthless’. Millions wanted to support HRC despite all the bullshit and they showed up.

    I’ll be gone for a while, rowing upstream is just hard work around here.
    And I have a very busy week ahead.

    Catch you in another thread, soon. Be well.

  24. KevinNevada says:

    One small PS:

    Expanding Medicare at the Federal level is a stupid way to enact universal health care coverage in the US.

    But it may be the only thing that can get passed, instead of a far better system like, for example, the German’s.

    We don’t do “smart” any more in the US. We are lucky if we can just get “possible”.

    Bye.

  25. StillBernie says:

    Yes Kev, i was told that my vote was worthless. If it wasn’t, superdelegates would have been allocated proportionally with the vote. Which was nearly 50/50 in my state. And not bought off ahead of time. When the primaries were going on, the superdelegates for Clinton total was counted before the voting even took place across the country. It wasn’t any GOP or Russkies doing the manipulating there. Warren is still in contention for my vote because she waited until after the primaries to throw her superdelegate vote to Clinton. Any other Dem superdelegates in my state can talk to the hand.

    I think people are open to an alternative to Medicare for all. But one that isn’t a stealth hose job. The case has been made for the German system, along with others. That’s why you put Sanders’ bill out now, and then do the haggling. It should be haggled over, thououghly and for a long time. What shouldn’t be done is hammering it through to chalk something up to your “legacy”, or lie to the people about what it entails, or let your donor buddies write the bill.

  26. NatashaFatale says:

    “… superdelegates would have been allocated proportionally with the vote.” That is just preposterous. From day one the stated purpose of superdelegates was to overrule the vote if the voters went off the reservation again as they did in ’72. What the very, very smart people who dreamed the scheme up never even considered was the possibility that someone could lock up the superdelegates four years – or more – before the primaries. But in retrospect it was inevitable. The only way to reform that system is to abolish it, because it will always be possible to game it.

  27. StillBernie says:

    And yet some states, whose had delegates that refused to play ball, did allocate their superdelegates. My embargo against the ones in my own state holds. Not only will i not vote for them, i’ll actively work against them if primaried, and potentially even in the general. I’m talking to you, Ed Markey (who confirmed more of Trump’s appointees than nearly any other Dem), and you too, Mike Capuano. My memory is very long.

    The problem with gaming it is that it backfired considerably. Yep, your candidate won the primary. And paid for it dearly with butts on couches in November. Indies and millennials gouldn’t give a flying rat’s about your party and what’s good for it. We care about having our vote count. This is the Dems’ problem over the last 4 elections – your party darling wins the primary, but loses in November. Their record of picking candidates kinda sucks. That’s why i laugh at Bluth saying the Dems need to pick charismatic candidates, they wouldn’t know one that appeals to regular voters if it bit them.

  28. StillBernie says:

    I’m hoping, which is a possibility, that Seth Moulton will primary Markey. He has a genuine shot if he does. Realistically though, i’m probably stuck with Capuano. Too much money behind him in my district.

  29. StillBernie says:

    In how many ways have i been insulted as a voter by the Dems. I’m going to hell if i don’t vote for Hills. I only voted for Bernie because all the boys did (but what if i was gay?). Schumer said he’d get two Republicans for every voter who didn’t vote for Hills. You’re welcome. Clinton tells me to vote my concience. So i did, and now she gets all butthurt about it.

    Choose your candidates wisely. Don’t try to game it, go after Trump but don’t insult the voters. Should be so basic, but the smart party is just so dumb.

  30. StillBernie says:

    I have to withdraw my earlier comment. Seth Moulton pledged to Clinton before the primary, but his district went for Sanders. They begged him to change but he wouldn’t. Bye Felicia.

  31. NatashaFatale says:

    But Amy, you are going to hell for casting that half a vote for Trump. Did no one forward you the memo?

  32. Expat says:

    I guess my comment above was wrong.

    The typical middle class family would save over $5,000 under this plan.

    Medicare for All: Leaving No One Behind – Bernie Sanders

  33. StillBernie says:

    Oh, they cut me in on the cc. Bummer i’m not religious though.

    I have to laugh at all of the Hillbots who are saying that the Dems should kick the Berners and progressives out of the party. I just smile and say have a nice midterm election. And a nice 2020 too. Most recent #s still have D and R tied at 28% of the electorate, and Indies at 41%.

    Expat –

    I’d still like to see those numbers crunched though. Some Repub Senator wants the CBO to crunch the numbers. I don’t know how politicized that office is nowadays, but it sure can’t hurt to get a more independent view of where it stands just for starting negotiations.

    The thing is though, universal healthcare is like infrastructure and R&D and SBA loans – they’re investments in the economy. Once individuals, small businesses, and even corporations are released from health insurance worries and obligations, i would imagine that would give a serious jump to the ecomomy.

  34. StillBernie says:

    This is my favorite comic about going to hell.

    going to hell

  35. Squirrel says:

    Only opera will be able to tell this tale properly, afterward.

    Well, we had a little bit of a John Adams-fest at the Proms this year (he’s been one of the Prommers’ great favourites for years now) so maybe the Beeb can commission one from him for the 2021 or (please god not) the 2025 season?

    Or maybe even better, the RoH can get Thomas Ades on it?

    Only thing is, would it be a tragedy or a comedy? The former would really require the Trumps to leap en masse to their anguished demise from the top of a Trump Tower, finally recognising all their character flaws, but that’s a bit far-fetched even for an opera audience . . .

    I can imagine the libretto being composed entirely of tweets, flashed on people’s iPads and iPhones all round the audience . . .or overlaid augmented-reality style with the audience all wearing google glasses or something, like Sherlock. . .

    (Squ. open to offers from the RoH and the Met for development ideas . . .)

  36. bluthner says:

    Squirrel,

    Definately get Terry Gulliam to do the sets.

  37. StillBernie says:

    The NYT whipped out an op-ed today by 2 Repub think tankers trashing single payer. Early days for desperation, but there you have it. The Sanders / Clinton split is in full rage. There’s an occasional commenter over there that i’m about 75% sure is VM. I’m pretty sure it’s not Lefty, although the typing can be a bit off.

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